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Post by Handsome Devil on Oct 9, 2011 15:29:11 GMT -5
Alright, so I was kind of a dick with this. But Steve, I am curious about how you haven't had a full week of school yet.
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Post by StevePulaski on Oct 9, 2011 21:04:21 GMT -5
Alright, so I was kind of a dick with this. But Steve, I am curious about how you haven't had a full week of school yet. Well, the first week of school was only three days long, then we had an early dismissal the next week, off for Labor Day, late start on Wednesday, another early dismissal, another late start, and finally a full week. This week we're off for Columbus Day and another late start (a last start means we start at 10:00am every other Wednesday). Sickens me to see how overpaid teachers are. I know I'm supposed to like off days, which I do, but seriously, I feel cheated on my education. |
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Post by Handsome Devil on Oct 10, 2011 14:02:49 GMT -5
Alright, so I was kind of a dick with this. But Steve, I am curious about how you haven't had a full week of school yet. Well, the first week of school was only three days long, then we had an early dismissal the next week, off for Labor Day, late start on Wednesday, another early dismissal, another late start, and finally a full week. This week we're off for Columbus Day and another late start (a last start means we start at 10:00am every other Wednesday). Sickens me to see how overpaid teachers are. I know I'm supposed to like off days, which I do, but seriously, I feel cheated on my education. Overpaid? Teacher's are notoriously underpaid. It's a very difficult job. You are judged every day, by students and by parents. You need to teach people who don't want to learn and don't want to be there. You need to be the bad guy every time you assign homework and tests. That said, I have zero sympathy for bad teachers. And missing a few days doesn't matter much in the big picture. |
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Post by StevePulaski on Oct 10, 2011 16:07:36 GMT -5
Well, the first week of school was only three days long, then we had an early dismissal the next week, off for Labor Day, late start on Wednesday, another early dismissal, another late start, and finally a full week. This week we're off for Columbus Day and another late start (a last start means we start at 10:00am every other Wednesday). Sickens me to see how overpaid teachers are. I know I'm supposed to like off days, which I do, but seriously, I feel cheated on my education. Overpaid? Teacher's are notoriously underpaid. It's a very difficult job. You are judged every day, by students and by parents. You need to teach people who don't want to learn and don't want to be there. You need to be the bad guy every time you assign homework and tests. That said, I have zero sympathy for bad teachers. And missing a few days doesn't matter much in the big picture. Great, another debate  . Teachers are overpaid. A few days? I just had my first full week. I have one teacher who shows movies the whole time. He doesn't write a lesson plan, and doesn't even grade anything but tests. That's ludicrous. He gets paid for not even doing his job. He doesn't write a lesson plan, he doesn't teach us one on one, he doesn't encourage participation, he just tells us the bare-minimum of the unit, makes us watch a number of tediously crafted and boring documentaries, and then criticizes us like College majors when we write an essay that's just okay? It's our first essay, and he gives us little to no room to maneuver. I have met a number of teachers who I liked, really liked, and absolutely admired. Since first grade - I think I've met three teachers that did what they were paid to do, went to the ends of the Earth to help me, talked to me one on one, got to know me, and discover who I really am and vice-versa. They valued my opinion, my questions, and my time. Now - it seems teachers just leave the teaching up to the students. They are overpaid and under-worked. To quote a user on Yahoo Answers; "National average is about $32,000 for nine months work. That is nine months folks and many many many of our kids can not pass standards of learning tests. Time to quit the trendy harping about "underpaid" $32,000 for Nine (9) months is waaay overpaid for what we are now getting." |
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Post by nopersonality on Oct 10, 2011 21:20:44 GMT -5
From where I'm sitting, I am convinced of a few non-negotiable facts:
1. Teachers have been grossly underpaid as a profession for a very long time. Mostly because of the shit they have to deal with from fucking parents who don't know how to do their job. They sure as hell know how to complain when they don't like what their kid is being taught - which leads to the teacher getting chewed out by administrators - but when their little bastard Johnny or Jane is a disciplinary problem, the teachers are expected to let them get away with murder just to save their skin. Get one thing straight, Steve: teaching students is one of the world's most nightmarish double-standards there'll ever be. I don't doubt there are a great many good students who want to learn but thanks to attitudes like the one you picked up, they now have to police the bad students themselves if they want the teachers to be able to teach their classes better.
You want to tell stories? You know what my high school was like? A fucking circus. Every single day. Nobody could learn because the majority of students talked to themselves, ignored the lesson plans, did no work until test time, and created a serious disturbance for any students trying. Why? Because the students abused the hell out of all their rights. And the teachers would get torn apart if they so much as spoke to the students harshly. Even in the advanced classes with the smart students, the teacher could barely get a word in edgewise over the roar of the students' talking. And this was August '98 to June 2002. Things on the whole have only gotten more unruly and out of hand across the nation as the years have gone by. And you expect teachers to do all the work fixing a broken down system because the goddamn taxpayers are sanctimonious twats? A lot of these people actually have families of their own and I doubt they want to change diapers and raise their teenagers IN class with their other students.
2. When it comes to the kinds of people teachers are, it's true that you never know what their morals and politics are, etc. I believe most teachers are inspirational, even-handed people. But there are, like cops, too many bad eggs. But, while Steve & the Talking Heads he's quoting (or: Bobbleheads, to be more precise) argue that the bad eggs are mostly liberals or radicals at heart, it's very much the other way 'round. This job breeds two things, one of them Steve pointed out = apathy. Due to the fact that the system is corrupt and they think they can change it, only to discover that they were wrong. The other is self-righteousness. This comes from the teachers who actually do the best at fitting in, only to turn the job into a form of community politics. Fraternizing with budding-Tea Party members and disenfranchised, pissy parents who are just spoiled rotten children in adults' bodies and like to make a fuss out of nothing. Basically...: they're narcs. Attracted to the job because they love the hunt of a good scandal where they can pull a Rabid Grannies / Kitty Farmer routine to make a name for themselves. Even if one never comes, they're prepared to use any small incident among staff to make themselves look good and sabotage another teacher's good reputation.
This is something else I have actually seen with my own eyes. I actually had a neighbor who lived minutes away from my house who was a video clerk then became some kind of librarian then moved up to a teaching assistant. See: politics. Social climbing. She busted a friend and me for... as she ended up charging it: being sexually flirtacious. I doubt I have to tell you this was me and a girl. Which any teacher would have likely thought was preposterous but this bitch had already made a name for herself as a pious Witchfinder among the staff and for whatever reason, they gave her a free hand to see to it I was given an in-school suspension along with the girl I was talking to.
Look at any school where a gay teacher, for example, teaches and has to keep themselves in the closet. Do you think parents of kids who thought a guy was a little femme would get anywhere if it weren't for prejudices among the staff? Point being: while I believe the good teachers outnumber the bad (contrary to Steve's "opinion" - like with everything controversial Steve says, I believe it's being fed to him and he's doing very little questioning of it to see whether it sticks), you just never quite know what kind of Mary Poppins or The Hand That Rocks the Cradle saint or psycho you may be getting / dealing with. So this is not an easy topic to come to a conclusion for. Teachers need better resources to teach their students before pay is adjusted. Because, as it happens, there are plenty of stories about teachers having to spend their own money to make up for what the school won't give them. This is one of the things that lead to all that Labels for Education stuff. You know- those coupons on the back of Campbell's Soup cans and Pop Secret boxes?
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Post by StevePulaski on Oct 11, 2011 13:54:10 GMT -5
All right, I'm currently in school right now and have payed close attention to my teachers up until this point. Maybe I was wrong to jump all over them right away. What I should've said when it comes to teachers being overpaid or underpaid it really depends. Some teachers I've met, in their first year of teaching, did a poor job at teaching. Some teachers I met during their first year were great and kept learning and fun equal. Since when do I have a bad attitude, though? Are you saying I don't respect teachers? I have good relations with all my teachers, and have been giving them reviews, participating, and making things easy on them since around seventh grade (you really can't help yourself before then since you're still learning maturity). I've always tried to be the kid who does his work and stays out of others affairs.
Many of my teachers this year are very well. I go to a very nice high school ranked close to the top in the nation. So I believe many teachers get pretty hefty salaries. And from what I can tell, only about a third have affected me while other teachers are just pretty good to decent. No matter the teacher - good, bad, old, young, middle-aged, mean, happy, aggressive, assertive, gay, straight - I always respect them. Period. They're like a boss.
The average American teacher in their first year of teaching earns about $32,000 or + a year. The average teacher with experience (say three to six years give or take) earns between $50,000 and $76,000 (information obtained by simple searches of salaries). But - this includes fall, winter, spring, and summer breaks, off-days, late-starts, early dismissals, snow days, etc. A year is twelve months for most people. For teachers it is cut three months short.
Students at my high school are pretty well behaved for the most part. Yeah, they are a few obnoxious ones, but you get that with every school. I get along with most everyone I meet since I'm open and talkative so I don't have any enemies yet. Mostly because I've learned to mind my own business over the years.
Also, why do you always assume I'm being fed information? Don't you think I'm old enough to garner information on my own and form an opinion? Like when I write my reviews - I base my opinion not off of others, but my own, like it should be done. My parents aren't very political (my dad is 0%, and doesn't even vote or care about much happening in the world). I frequent the news, mainly CNN, Fox, and MSNBC, just to hear the headlines. Even though I consider myself more of a Conservative-Liberatarian I do not hate Liberals in any way. I don't like a lot, sure, but some Democratic views I agree with (I'm still undecided on abortion truthfully). But I form an opinion on my own. My parents don't sit me down, and force me to believe in something. They figure that I can draw a conclusion based on evidence - which I can.
To sum this up; I believe some teachers are overpaid. It really depends on the teacher. If they go above and beyond for the student, then they deserve every penny they make. If they do the bare-minimum to get by and rarely encourage any participation or subjective views - then they simply aren't doing their job. If they leave the learning up to the students, that is ludicrious.
I'm sorry if I started any kind of war. I never intended this to be such a debate, and only wanted it to be a reply to HD's simple question. But as we can see here - the tribe has spoken.
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. Teachers are overpaid. A few days? I just had my first full week. I have one teacher who shows movies the whole time. He doesn't write a lesson plan, and doesn't even grade anything but tests. That's ludicrous. He gets paid for not even doing his job. He doesn't write a lesson plan, he doesn't teach us one on one, he doesn't encourage participation, he just tells us the bare-minimum of the unit, makes us watch a number of tediously crafted and boring documentaries, and then criticizes us like College majors when we write an essay that's just okay? It's our first essay, and he gives us little to no room to maneuver.